ok, financial markets and bailout.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.... The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.

The modern theory of the perpetuation of debt has drenched the earth with blood, and crushed its inhabitants under burdens ever accumulating."

-Thomas Jefferson

WHY IS THERE SO MUCH PORK IN THIS BILL?!

Over $400 million in tax breaks for Hollywood Producers? Over $190 million for Rum makers in Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands? Over $120 million in tax breaks for auto racing tracks?

THIS BILL SHOULD BE VOTED DOWN FOR THIS ALONE. WE CANT AFFORD TO DO THIS!

and what when Bessie broke her back and can't go no more? J-

I understand Moby's argument, but it's not a valid one. This is what is told to us by our Media and our Government, but it's not the full truth. It wont affect our private market by much. It will only mean that the strong will survive. Which is what capitalism is all about. The strongest business will survive. There are plenty of banks who will take the place of these failed banks. Why do we have to bail out these banks - who have proven themselves to be irresponsible. It's no different then Enron or any other failed corporation. Let them fail, and the market will fix itself.

The comment from Sacred Dignity was spot on. Not very many Americans TRULY understand American Politics and Finance. The Fed is not here to help us out. The U.S. GOVERNMENT does not print the American Dollar - although it has the power. The FED is the company who has that right. They are a private organization, with only 20% being owned by the U.S. Government. With that said, the other 80% ownership of the Federal Reserve are international entities and other private/central banks - who's ownership information is unknown.

Everyone should educate themselves thoroughly on the way the Federal Reserve works, and then you'll understand why they are so eager in 'helping' us out. The Fed is a bank, and whenever we need money (U.S. Gov), we borrow from them. Plain and simple. That borrowed money is then charged interest. The loan is secured by the assets of the Federal Goverment - such as Income Taxes. The IRS is a division of the Federal Reserve, and it's job is to protect it's security interests - our income taxes.

The reason inflation is the way it is right now, and the decline of the U.S. Dollar, is because we keep borrowing from the Feds, and thus bringing into circulation more and more American currency. This floods the currency market, and decreases the value of the dollar - this is simple economics - supply & demand. You flood the market with a product, the price goes down. No different with currency. In addition, the Fed has the power to 'print' money out of thin air. So this additional $700b is coming from nowhere. However, because the way our banking system has been set up, they have the power to do this. It's called FRACTIONAL-RESERVE LENDING. Banks, by law, are allowed to lend out 300% of their total deposits. If a bank has $100M in total deposits on file, they are allowed to lend out $300M - think about that for a minute. That's $300M of assets they don't have, which they then apply interest whenever you or I borrow. What do we get in exchange for putting our money into a bank? 3% interest! What do they get for using the money we put into their bank... 300% percent interest. So you see why banks are eager to have our money in their account. Of course, on the streets this has a different name... FRAUD - you do it, you go to jail. The banks do it, it's called FRACTIONAL-RESERVE LENDING.

The FED is no different. They get their 'money' from the other central banks which are vested in it. These other banks use the Fed as their 'main' bank. These other central banks - consider them customers. The Fed is their bank. Now, the Fed does not have the final say. It too deposits it's money somewhere else... and this is the Banks of All Banks - Bank for International Settlements (BIS) - This is where all the magic happens. No one knows who is 'behind' this bank. It was basically set up as a way for all of the central banks to have a single place to exchange notes, provide loans, set standards. But no one knows who controls it. The board of directors are private, and it is a privately held organization free of government interference (which is good and bad). Now that's some power. What they say goes.

I didn't want to get into all of this, and I'm sure many of you are probably bored from reading. But, in a nutshell, by bailing out these banks with money printed out of thin air, this is going to have a negative reaction to our economy - INFLATION. Ok, fine I didn't lose my job, and now I can borrow some more money to buy a new car or a new boat, or to keep my business afloat. But now, I have to pay back that money, and because my pay rate has stayed the same, or has not increased to keep up with inflation - but my debits have increased even more, and the value of the dollar has declined, it's going to take me longer to pay back what I borrowed -- HELLO - That is the problem now. So basically, we are making the problem worst. These banks lent money to people who COULD NOT PAY BACK WHAT THEY OWE. Now, we are lending money to BANKS WHO COULD NOT PAY BACK WHAT THEY OWE. What's going to happen when we can't pay back what WE OWE?

It's a band aid fix, and will eventually bite us in the behind.

Your going to see prices SOAR in the U.S. market. All these wars and irresponsible spending from the BUSH administration for the past 8 years and now this additional $700B loan... it's only going to make matters worst.

I agree with letting the market FIX ITSELF. If that means letting all these banks fail... great. This is CAPITALISM at it's finest hour. Only the strong will survive. The only market it will affect is the lending market. And believe me, that won't be affected much. There are PLENTY of other banks we can get loans from. Sure, it will be harder, and they might be stricter - but that's a GOOD thing. The reason we are in this mess, is because these banks lent to people/businesses who weren't viable interests. The MARKET will FIX ITSELF. It won't cause a depression - remember, the depression was caused because of BANK RUNS - everyone took their money out of the banks at the same time. But the banks DID not have enough money on hand to pay everyone, so they collapsed or folded. Nothing to do with what is going on.

By NOT lending out this money, it will HOPEFULLY make US Responsible Borrowers. We have gotten into the habit of living beyond our means. It has to stop, and we have to stop becoming slaves to the banks by borrowing more than we can afford. Our addiction to products and gadgets has only fueled our addiction for borrowing.

What did George W. Bush say right after we were attacked on 9/11 - GO SHOPPING! And shopping everyone did.

Here, this video sums up THE FED:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUhGpBNBtk

- OPTiC
Turntable Technician
www.1200s.com

Moby-I luv you man but how can you really be endorsing this bill?

Do you realize how many absurd tax incentives are buried inside this bill??

Some of them are (as outline in today's WSJ):

The measure includes dozens of other tax breaks large and small, ranging from the abolition of a 39 cent excise tax on makers of wooden arrows designed for children to a multi billion dollar incentive for U.S.-based financial services companies, an extension of credits for businesses that employ residents of Indian reservations. The $18 billion in clean-energy incentives allow businesses to provide benefits to employees who commute to work by bicycle. Other tax breaks benefit Hollywood producers, stock-car racetrack owners and Virgin Islands rum-makers.

and some democrats?

95 of them voted against the bill...Thats 40% of Democrats, nearly half !

I find your comment quite misleading, your no different than the Republicans and Democrats who are playing politics with this important issue, shame on you

I apologise if anyone is reading my reply as i am not as articulate as everyone else :) But i live in Australia, and although we are not affected as yet by the wall street collapse, im sure in time it will. And judging by what we hear on the news it seems the bailout is a safe option. The last thing the world needs is another depression. And i know its a bit inappropriate, but moby i really love your music, it is my light of the day. You are a legend and i wish you a great day.
Ash

Moby do you agree with nuclear energy or not?

...with you on the bailout. I believe the 700 billion would be better spent on the infrastructure. This would create thousands of jobs for the middle and lower class and repair our nation's crumbling bridges, roads, etc. Further, the side benefit of this is that oil dropped ten dollars a barrel yesterday and it will continue to drop which is great for the masses who don't have 401k's or other retirement's to lose and have never invested in the market. What I can't understand is how come the polls are still so close. Sure, it's early yet, but the markets crumbling are a searing indictment on the GOP's 20 plus years of trickle down economics and in particular, John "anti-regulation" McCain. Why isn't Obama ahead by a landslide? A: racism.

1. Problem:

Created by various instruments such as inflationary practices by the Federal Reserve in devaluing the dollar, years in over-extension of credit by greenspan during clinton years, undiscipline investing (credit default swaps and deritatives), incompetent derivative product structurers/traders, corrupt mortgage brokers, irresponsible home buyers, pressure from lobbying groups such as acorn to create policies such as the community investment act, aggressive short-selling targeting financial institutions and u.s. representives holding seats on the banking committee have accepted "campaign donations" from special interests (barney frank, chris dodd)

2. Reaction:

use the national media to sell nothing but fear on the worse possible scenario and issue ultimatums if drastic measures are not implemented with a sense of complete urgency and compliance

3. Solution:

draft an ethically corrupt and fraudulent bill that would give the treasury total control over $700 Billion of tax payers dollars to buy up illiquid or toxic assets from failed private institutions despite the fact that a) the treasury has yet to offer specific, quantifiable logistics for the $700 billion (they're just asking for the moon without rhyme or reason), b) there are no assurance that this bill would curb the necessary corrections, c) would allow the u.s. govn't to intervene in "price-fixing" (betrayal of free market fundamentals) and d) ultimately nationalize the largest financial institutions (think fascism or leninism)

See a fundamental (constitutional) problem here?

corrupt politicians, the media and the captains of finance want you the tax-payer to assume the burden for the very problems they deliberately created in the first place so that they could consolidate private institutions under the auspices of a few, power-hungry men who care nothing for the plight and pain of real everyday problems with middle-america.

instead of simply identifying the source of the economic problems and correcting or reforming it, the president and certain members of congress would rather prolong the uncertainty.

why do people continute to allow the banksters, the robber barons and their puppets in govn't to perpetuate practices that go against your best interest?

market corrections are healthy and necessary in a free market.

yes...i agree..the concern for the us banks and markets is geniune and gov't help is needed to prevent a crash...with capitalism, the us government always has money...thank god, even in depression times (WPA)...the money doesn't all have to be backed by gold and can be payed back over forever...you are right to say why the debate...party politics again...

...realizing there is something more important than "the color of their skin"--(an expression)...referring to party politics

...people have very little trust for Bush's motivs, I see. I have to say that I understand that bc of his history..but, that the failure of wall street has been in the coming for a long time..this has been a very severe recession and now there is a huge list of us banks on the border of failing or that are failing...no one wants to publicize the failure of the stock market...its like publicizing that the plague is in your town...there is nothing to get out of it...Bush is doing what he has to..he's almost out the door...that's how I see it...
ie: how did Bush come up with 700 Billion as a number?...bc he doesn't want to say 678,744,334,...and 20 cents
I really hope that nothing more severe happens in the down direction on wall street than what already has...J-